Sir John BARNARD spoke as follows:—Sir, I am far from being inclined to receive as a favour, what, in my own opinion, I may claim as a right, and desire not to owe the liberty of speaking to the condescension of the right honourable gentleman.
What I have to urge is no less against the bill in general, than the particular clause now immediately under our consideration, and though the petition should relate likewise to the whole bill, I cannot discover why we should refuse to hear it.
Petitions from men of much inferiour rank, and whose interest is much less closely connected with that of the publick, have been thought necessary to be heard, nor is the meanest individual to be injured or restrained, without being admitted to offer his arguments in his own favour. Even the journeymen shoemakers, one of the lowest classes of the community, have been permitted to bring their counsel to our bar, and remonstrate against the inconveniencies to which they were afraid of being subjected.
Mr. WINNINGTON spoke thus:—Sir, I am always willing to hear petitions, when respectfully drawn up, and regularly subscribed, but can by no means discover that this is a real petition, for I have heard of no names affixed to it; it is, therefore, a request from nobody, and by rejecting it no man is refused. It may, so far as can be discovered, be drawn up by the gentleman who offered it, and, perhaps, no other person may be acquainted with it.
Mr. HAY spoke to the following purport:—Sir, it is, in my opinion, necessary that a petition in the name of the merchants of London should be subscribed by the whole number, for if only a few should put their names to it, how does it appear that it is any thing more than an apprehension of danger to their own particular interest, which, perhaps, the other part, their rivals in trade, may consider as an advantage, or at least regard with indifference. This suspicion is much more reasonable, when a petition is subscribed by a smaller number, who may easily be imagined to have partial views, and designs not wholly consistent with the interest of the publick.
Admiral WAGER then spoke thus:—Sir, if I am rightly informed, another petition is preparing by several eminent merchants, that this clause may stand part of the bill; and, certainly, they ought to be heard as well as the present petitioners, which will occasion great and unnecessary delays, and, therefore, I am against the motion.
Advocate CAMPBELL answered to this effect:—Sir, I agree with that honourable gentleman, that if the merchants are divided in opinion upon this point, one side ought to be heard as well as the other, and hope the house will come to a resolution for that purpose: for I shall invariably promote every proposal which tends to procure the fullest information in all affairs that shall come before us.
[Then the question was put, that the farther consideration of the report be adjourned for two days, in order to hear the merchants, and it passed in the negative, ayes, 142; noes, 192.]
[On the report this day, the eleven clauses of severity were given up without any division, and a clause was added, viz. "Provided that nothing in this bill shall be construed to extend to any contracts or agreements for the hire of seamen (or persons employed as such) in voyages from parts beyond the seas, to any other parts beyond the seas, or to Great Britain."]
The engrossed bill "for the increase and encouragement of seamen," was read, according to order, when Mr. DIGBY rose, and spoke as follows:—
Sir, I have a clause to be offered to the house, as necessary to be inserted in the bill before us, which was put into my hands by a member, whom a sudden misfortune has made unable to attend his duty, and which, in his opinion, and mine, is of great importance, and I shall, therefore, take the liberty of reading it.
"Be it enacted, that every seaman offering himself to serve his majesty, shall, upon being refused, receive from such captain, lieutenant, or justice of the peace, a certificate, setting forth the reasons for which he is refused, which certificate may be produced by him, as an exemption from being seized by a warrant of impress."
I hope the reasonableness and equity of this clause is so incontestably apparent, that it will find no opposition; for what can be more cruel, unjust, or oppressive, than to punish men for neglect of a law which they have endeavoured to obey. To what purpose are rewards offered, if they are denied to those who come to claim them? What is it less than theft, and fraud, to force a man into the service, who would willingly have entered, and subject him to hardships, without the recompense which he may justly demand from the solemn promise of the legislature.
Admiral WAGER next spoke to this effect:—Sir, to this clause, which the gentleman has represented as so reasonable and just, objections may, in my opinion, be easily made, of which he will himself acknowledge the force. The great obstruction of publick measures is partiality, whether from friendship, bribery, or any other motive; against partiality alone the clause which is now offered, is levelled; and, indeed, it is so dangerous an evil, that it cannot be obviated with too much caution.
But this clause, instead of preventing private correspondence, and illegal combinations, has an evident tendency to produce them, by inciting men to apply with pretended offers of service to those who are before suborned to refuse them, then make a merit of their readiness, and demand a certificate.
By such artifices multitudes may exempt themselves from the impress, who may be known to be able sailors, even by those that conduct it; and may, under the protection of a certificate, fallaciously obtained, laugh at all endeavours to engage them in the publick service.
Mr. DIGBY spoke thus:—Sir, if this authority, lodged in the hands of those who are proposed in the clause to be intrusted with it, be in danger of being executed, without due regard to the end for which it is granted, let it be placed where there is neither temptation nor opportunity to abuse it. Let the admiralty alone have the power of granting such certificates, the officers of which will be able to judge whether the sailor is really unfit for the service, and deliver those whom age or accidents have disabled from the terrour of impresses; for surely, he that is fit to serve, when taken by violence, is no less qualified when he enters voluntarily, and he who could not be admitted when he tendered himself, ought not to be dragged away, when, perhaps, he has contracted for another voyage.
Mr. WAGER replied:—Sir, it is, doubtless, more proper to place such authority in the officers of the admiralty, than in any other; but it does not appear that the benefit which the sailors may receive from it, to whatever hands it is intrusted, will not be overbalanced by the injury which the publick will probably suffer.
Sailors are frequently levied in remote parts of the kingdom; in ports where the admiralty cannot speedily be informed of the reasons for which those that may petition for certificates have been refused, and therefore cannot grant them without danger of being deceived by fraudulent accounts.
The grievance for which the remedy is proposed cannot frequently occur; for it is not probable that in a time of naval preparations, any man qualified for the service should be rejected, since the officers gain nothing by their refusal.
Mr. HAY spoke as follows:—Sir, it is very possible that those instances which may be produced of men, who have been impressed by one officer, after they have been rejected by another, may be only the consequences of the high value which every man is ready to set upon his own abilities: for he that offers himself, no doubt, demands the highest premium, though he be not an able sailor; and, if rejected, and afterwards impressed as a novice, thinks himself at liberty to complain, with the most importunate vehemence, of fraud, partiality, and oppression.
[The question being put was resolved in the negative, almost unanimously.]
Mr. SOUTHWELL offered a clause, importing, "That all sailors who should take advance-money of the merchants, should be obliged to perform their agreements, or be liable to be taken up by any magistrate or justice of the peace, and deemed deserters, except they were in his majesty's ships of war."
He was seconded by lord GAGE:—Sir, as this clause has no other tendency than to promote the interest of the merchants, without obstructing the publick preparations; as it tends only to confirm legal contracts, and facilitate that commerce from whence the wealth and power of this nation arises, I hope it will readily be admitted; as we may, by adding this sanction to the contracts made between the merchants and sailors, in some degree balance the obstructions wherewith we have embarrassed trade by the other clauses.
Admiral WAGER replied:—This clause is unquestionably reasonable, but not necessary; for it is to be found already in an act made for the encouragement of the merchants, which is still in force, and ought, whenever any such frauds are committed, to be rigorously observed.
Sir Robert WALPOLE then desired that the clerk might read the act, in which the clause was accordingly found, and Mr. SOUTHWELL withdrew his motion.
[Then the question was put, whether the bill "for the increase and encouragement of sailors" do pass, which was resolved in the affirmative, 153 against 79.]
HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 13, 1740-1
[DEBATE ON THE BILL FOR THE PUNISHMENT OF
MUTINY AND DESERTION.]
The house being resolved into a committee for the consideration of the bill for the punishment of mutiny and desertion, and for the better payment of the army and their quarters, etc. sir William YONGE desired that the twentieth and twenty-sixth clauses of the late act might be read, which were read as follows:
XX. It is hereby enacted, that the officers and soldiers, so quartered and billeted, shall be received by the owners of the inns, livery-stables, ale-houses, victualling-houses, and other houses in which they are allowed to be quartered and billeted by this act; and shall pay such reasonable prices as shall be appointed, from time to time, by the justices of the peace, in their general and quarter-sessions of each county, city, or division, within their respective jurisdictions: and the justices of the peace aforesaid, are hereby empowered and required to set and appoint, in their general or quarter-sessions aforesaid, such reasonable rates, for all necessary provisions for such officers and soldiers, for one or more nights, in the several cities, towns, villages and other places, which they shall come to in their march, or which shall be appointed for their residence and quarters.
XXVI. That the quarters, both of officers and soldiers in Great Britain, may be duly paid and satisfied, be it enacted, that every officer, to whom it belongs to receive the pay or subsistence-money, either for a whole regiment, or particular troops and companies, shall immediately, upon each receipt of every particular sum, on account of pay or subsistence, give publick notice thereof to all persons keeping inns, or other places where officers or soldiers are quartered by virtue of this act: also appoint them and others to repair to their quarters, within four days at the farthest, after the receipt of the same, to declare the accounts or debts (if any shall be) between them and the officers and soldiers quartered in their respective houses: which accounts the said officer or officers are hereby required immediately to discharge, before any part of the said pay or subsistence be distributed to the officers or soldiers: provided the said accounts exceed not for a commission officer of horse, under a captain, for one day's diet and small beer, two shillings; for one commission officer of dragoons, under a captain, one shilling; for one commission officer of foot, under a captain one shilling; and for hay and straw, for one horse, sixpence; for one dragoon or light horseman's diet and small beer, each day sixpence, and hay and straw for his horse, sixpence; and also not to exceed fourpence a-day, for one foot soldier's diet and small beer.
He then spoke to the following effect:—Sir, whether there is any real difficulty in the clauses which you have now heard read, or whether there are such passages as may be easily understood by those who have no interest to mistake them, and which are only clouded by an artificial obscurity, whether they are in themselves capable of different meanings, or whether avarice or poverty have produced unreasonable interpretations, and found ambiguities only because they were determined not to be disappointed in their search; whether this law is disobeyed because it is misunderstood, or only misunderstood by those who have resolved to disobey it, the committee must determine.
It has been for many years understood that innholders and keepers of publick-houses were obliged by this law to supply soldiers quartered upon them with diet and small beer, and hay and straw for their horses, at such rates as are mentioned in the act; nor can I discover that these clauses admit of any other interpretation, or that any other could be intended by the senate by which it was enacted. The pay of the soldiers, sir, was well known to those who gave their consent to this law, it was intended by them that the soldiers should be supplied with necessaries, and it could not be meant that they should pay for them more than they received; they, therefore, established the rate at which they were to be furnished, and fixed the highest rate which the wages of a soldier allow him to pay.
This interpretation was, as I suppose, from its apparent consonance to reason, universally allowed, till the inhabitants of Ledbury, whither soldiers had been sent to suppress a riot and enforce the laws, found their apprehensions so sharpened by their malice, that they discovered in the act an ambiguity, which had, till that time, escaped the penetration of the most sagacious, and, upon comparison of one circumstance with another, found themselves under no obligation to give any assistance to the soldiers.
They therefore, sir, not only refused to afford them victuals at the accustomed rates, but proceeding from one latitude of interpretation to another, at length denied them not only the privilege of diet, but the use of kitchen utensils, to dress the provisions which they bought for themselves, and at last denied their claim to the fire itself.
The soldiers, exasperated not only at the breach of their established and uncontested privileges, but at the privation of the necessaries of life, began to think of methods more speedy and efficacious than those of arguments and remonstrances, and to form resolutions of procuring by force, what, in their opinions, was only by force withheld from them.
What might have been the event of this controversy, to what extremities a contest about things so necessary might have been carried, how wide the contest might have spread, or how long it might have lasted, we may imagine, but cannot determine; had not a speedy decision been procured, its consequences might have been fatal to multitudes, and a great part of the nation been thrown into confusion.
Having received an account of the affair from the officers who commanded at that place, I consulted the attorney-general what was the design of the law, and the extent of the obligation enforced by it, and was answered by him, that the sums which were to be paid for the diet of the men, and the hay and straw for the horses, being specified, it must necessarily be intended, by the legislature, that no higher rates should be demanded;—that the power granted to the justices of peace was wholly in favour of the soldier, and that they might lessen the payment at discretion in places of uncommon cheapness, or years of extraordinary plenty, but could not increase it on any occasion.
Another dispute, sir, of the like nature was occasioned by the late scarcity at Wakefield, where the justices, upon the application of the innkeepers, made use of the authority which they supposed to have been reposed in them by the act, and raised the price of hay and straw to eight-pence, which the soldiers were not able to pay, without suffering for want of victuals.
On this occasion, likewise, I was applied to, and upon consulting the present attorney-general, received the same answer as before; and transmitting his opinion to the place from whence I received the complaint, it had so much regard paid to it, that the additional demand was thence-forward remitted.
The letters which those two learned lawyers sent to me on this subject I have now in my hand; and hope their opinion will be thought sufficient authority for the interpretation of an act of the senate.
Nor is their authority, sir, however great, so strong a proof of the justness of this interpretation, as the reasonableness, or rather necessity of admitting it. The only argument that can be produced against it, is the hardship imposed by it on the innholder, who, as it is objected, must be obliged by the law, so understood, to furnish the soldiers with provisions for a price at which he cannot afford them.
But let it be considered, how much more easily the landlord can furnish them at this price, than they can provide for themselves, and the difficulty will immediately vanish. If soldiers are necessary, they must necessarily be supported, and it appears, upon reflection, that their pay will not support them by any other method. If they are obliged to buy their victuals, they must likewise buy fire and implements to dress them; and what is still a greater hardship, they must sell them, and buy new, at every change of their quarters; if this is impossible, it will be allowed not to be the meaning of the senate, upon whose wisdom it would be a censure too severe to suppose them capable of enacting impossibilities.
But to the innholder, sir, whose utensils are always in use, and whose fire is always burning, the diet of a soldier costs only the original price paid to the butcher; and, in years of common plenty, may be afforded, without loss, at the price mentioned in the act. It cannot, indeed, be denied, that, at present, every soldier is a burden to the family on which he is quartered, in many parts of the kingdom; but, it may be reasonably hoped, that the present scarcity will quickly cease, and that provisions will fall back to their former value; and even, amidst all the complaints with which the severity and irregularity of the late seasons have filled the nation, there are many places where soldiers may be maintained at the stated rates, with very little hardship to their landlords.
However, sir, as this interpretation of the act, though thus supported, both by authority and reason, has been disputed and denied; as some lawyers may be of a different opinion from those whom I have consulted; and as it is not likely that the practice, thus interrupted, will now be complied with as a prescription; I think it necessary to propose, that the price of a soldier's diet be more explicitly ascertained, that no room may remain for future controversies.
Mr. SANDYS then rose, and spoke as follows:—Sir, I am very far from thinking the authority of these learned gentlemen, whose letters are produced, incontrovertible proof of the justness of an interpretation of an act of the senate, where that interpretation is not in itself warranted by reason, nor consistent with the preservation or enjoyment of property. Much less shall I agree to support their interpretation by a new law; or establish, by an act of the legislature, a kind of oppression, for which, however tacitly submitted to, nothing could be pleaded hitherto but custom.
The burden, sir, of a standing army, is already too heavy to be much longer supported, nor ought we to add weight to it by new impositions; it surely much better becomes the representatives of the nation to attend to the complaints of their constituents; and where they are found to arise from real grievances, to contrive some expedient for alleviating their calamities.
A heavy and dreadful calamity, sir, lies now, in a particular manner, upon the people; the calamity of famine, one of the severest scourges of providence, has filled the whole land with misery and lamentation; and, surely, nothing can be more inhuman than to choose out this season of horrour for new encroachments on their privileges, and new invasions of the rights of nature, the dominion of their own houses, and the regulation of their own tables.
The honourable gentleman, sir, has mentioned places where provisions, as he says, are still to be bought at easy rates. For my part, I am fixed in no such happy corner of the kingdom; I see nothing but scarcity, and hear nothing but complaints; and shall, therefore, be very far from admitting now such methods of supporting the army, as were thought too burdensome in times of plenty; nor will combine in laying a new tax upon any class of my countrymen, when they are sinking under an enormous load of imposts, and in want of the necessaries of life.
Sir William YONGE replied, in the manner following:—Sir, nothing is more easy than outcry and exaggeration; nor any thing less useful for the discovery of truth, or the establishment of right. The most necessary measures may often admit of very florid exclamations against them, and may furnish very fruitful topicks of invective.
When our liberties, sir, are endangered, or our country invaded, it may be very easy, when it is proposed that we should have recourse to our swords for security, to bewail, in pathetick language, the miseries of war, to describe the desolation of cities, the waste of kingdoms, the insolence of victory, and the cruelty of power inflamed by hostilities. Yet to what will those representations contribute, but to make that difficult which yet cannot be avoided, and embarrass measures which must, however, be pursued.
Such, sir, appear to me to be the objections made to the methods now proposed of providing necessaries for the soldiers; methods not eligible for their own sake, but which ought not to be too loudly condemned, till some better can be substituted; for why should the publick be alarmed with groundless apprehensions? or why should we make those laws which our affairs oblige us to enact, less agreeable to the people by partial representations?
In the discussion of this question, sir, is to be considered whether soldiers are to be supported, and whether it will be more proper to maintain them by the method of ascertaining the rates at which they are to be supplied, or by increasing their pay.
One of these two ways it is necessary to take; the provisions are already fixed at as high a price as their pay will allow; if, therefore, they are expected to pay more, their wages must be increased.
For my part, I shall comply with either method; though I cannot but think it my duty to declare, that, in my opinion, it is safer to fix the price of provisions, which must sink in their value, than to raise the pay of the army, which may never afterwards be reduced.
Mr. GYBBON then spoke, to this effect:—Sir, I agree with the honourable gentleman, that if soldiers are necessary, we must make provision for their support. This is indisputably certain; but it is no less certain, that where soldiers are necessary, restraints and regulations are necessary likewise, to preserve those from being insulted and plundered by them, who maintain them for the sake of protection.
The usefulness, sir, of this caution seems not to be known, or not regarded, by the gentleman whose proposal gave occasion to this debate; for, by enacting laws in general terms, as he seems to advise, we should leave the unhappy innkeeper wholly at the mercy of his guests, who might plunder and insult him under the protection of the legislature, might riot, as in a conquered country, and say, "To this treatment you are subjected by the determination of the senate."
The unhappy man, sir, could have no prospect, either of quiet or safety, but by gratifying all the expectations of his masters; returning civilities for insolence, and receiving their commands with the same submission that is paid in capitulating towns to the new garrison.
If it be necessary to ascertain the price, is it not necessary, at the same time, to ascertain the species and quantity of provisions to be allowed for it? Is a soldier to fatten on delicacies, and to revel in superfluities, for fourpence a-day? Ought not some limits to be set to his expectations, and some restraints prescribed to his appetite? Is he to change his fare, with all the capriciousness of luxury, and relieve, by variety, the squeamishness of excess?
Such demands as these, sir, may be thought ludicrous and trifling, by those who do not reflect on the insolence of slaves in authority, who do not consider that the license of a military life is the chief inducement that brings volunteers into the army; an inducement which would, indeed, make all impresses superfluous, were this proposal to be adopted: for how readily would all the lazy and voluptuous engage in a state of life which would qualify them to live upon the labour of others, and to be profuse without expense?
Our army may, by this method, be increased; but the number of those by whom they are to be maintained, must quickly diminish: for, by exaction and oppression, the poorer innkeepers must quickly become bankrupts; and the soldiers that lose their quarters, must be added to the dividend allotted to the more wealthy, who, by this additional burden will soon be reduced to the same state, and then our army must subsist upon their pay, because they will no longer have it in their power to increase it by plunder.
It will then be inevitably necessary to divide the army from the rest of the community, and to build barracks for their reception; an expedient which, though it may afford present ease to the nation, cannot be put in practice without danger to our liberties.
The reason, for which so many nations have been enslaved by standing armies, is nothing more than the difference of a soldier's condition from that of other men. Soldiers are governed by particular laws, and subject to particular authority; authority which, in the manner of its operation, has scarcely any resemblance of the civil power. Thus, they soon learn to think themselves exempt from all other laws; of which they either do not discover the use, and, therefore, easily consent to abolish them; or envy the happiness of those who are protected by them, and so prevail upon themselves to destroy those privileges which have no other effect, with regard to them, but to aggravate their own dependence.
These, sir, are the natural consequences of a military subjection; and if these consequences are not always speedily produced by it, they must be retarded by that tenderness which constant intercourse with the rest of the nation produces, by the exchange of reciprocal acts of kindness, and by the frequent inculcation of the wickedness of contributing to the propagation of slavery, and the subversion of the rights of nature; inculcations which cannot be avoided by men who live in constant fellowship with their countrymen.
But soldiers, shut up in a barrack, excluded from all conversation with such as are wiser and honester than themselves, and taught that nothing is a virtue but implicit obedience to the commands of their officer, will soon become foreigners in their own country, and march against the defenders of their constitution, with the same alacrity as against an army of invaders ravaging the coasts; they will lose all sense of social duty, and of social happiness, and think nothing illustrious but to enslave and destroy.
So fatal, sir, will be the effects of an establishment of barracks, or petty garrisons, in this kingdom; and, therefore, as barracks must be built when innkeepers are ruined, and our concurrence with this proposal must produce their ruin, I hope it-will not be necessary to prove by any other argument, that the motion ought to be rejected.
Mr. PELHAM spoke next, in terms to this purpose:—Sir, though I am not inclined, by loud exaggerations and affected expressions of tenderness, to depress the courage or inflame the suspicions of the people, to teach them to complain of miseries which they do not feel, or ward against ill designs, which were never formed, yet no man is more really solicitous for their happiness, or more desirous of removing every real cause of fear and occasion of hardships.
This affection to the people, an affection steady, regular, and unshaken, has always prompted me to prefer their real to their seeming interest, and rather to consult the security of their privileges than the gratification of their passions; it has hitherto determined me to vote for such a body of troops, as may defend us against sudden inroads and wanton insults, and now incites me to propose that some efficacious method may be struck out for their support, without exasperating either the soldiers or their landlords by perpetual wrangles, or adding to the burden of a military establishment the necessity of contentions in courts of law.
I know not with what view those have spoken, by whom the proposal first made has been opposed; they have, indeed, produced objections, some of which are such as may be easily removed, and others such as arise from the nature of things, and ought not, therefore, to be mentioned, because they have no other tendency than to inflame the minds of those that hear them against an army, at a time when it is allowed to be necessary, and prove only what was never denied, that no human measures are absolutely perfect, and that it is often impossible to avoid a greater evil, but by suffering a less.
The question before us, sir, is in its own nature so simple, so little connected with circumstances that may distract our attention, or induce different men to different considerations, that when I reflect upon it, I cannot easily conceive by what art it can be made the subject of long harangues, or how the most fruitful imagination can expatiate upon it.