A Very Pleasaunt & Fruitful Diologe Called the Epicure

Hedo. But now tell me, whether you thynke thê sobre and wyse, which for playn vanities and shadowes of plesure, booth dispice the true and godlye pleasures of the mynde and chose for them selues suche thynges as bee but vexacion & sorowe.

SPV. I take it, thei bee not.

Hedo. In deede thei bee not drûke with wyne, but with loue with anger, with auarice, with ambicion, and other foule and filthie desires, whiche kynde of drunkenes is farre worse, thê that is gotten with drinking of wine. Yet Sirus y^t leude cõspaniõ of whom mention is made in y^e commedie, spake witty thynges after he had slepte hym self soobre, and called too memorie his greate and moost beastlye drunkenes: but the minde that is infected with vicious & noughty desire, hath muche a doo too call it selfe whom agein? How many yeares doeth loue, anger, spite, sensualitie, excesse, and ambition, trouble and prouoke the mynde? How many doo wee see, whiche euen from their youth, too their latter dais neuer awake nor repêt them of the drunkennes, of ambitiõ, nigardnes, wanton lust, & riatte?

Spu. I haue knowen ouermany of y^t sorte.

Hedo. You haue graûted that false and fayned good thinges, are not too bee estemed for the pure and godly.

Sp. And I affirme that still.

Hedo. Nor that there is no true and perfect pleasure, except it bee taken of honest and godly thynges.

Spud. I confesse that.

He. Then (I pray you) bee not those good that the commune sorte seeke for, they care not howe?

Spu. I thinke they be not.

Hedo. Surely if thei were good, they would not chaunce but onely too good men: and would make all those vertuous that they happen vntoo. What maner of pleasure make you that, doo you thinke it too bee godly, which is not of true & honest thynges, but of deceatfull: and coometh out of y^e shadowes of good thynges?

Sp. Nay in noo wyse.

He. For pleasure maketh vs to liue merely.

Spu. Yea, nothyng so muche.

He. Therfore no man truely liueth pleasauntly, but he that lyueth godly: that is, whiche vseth and delecteth onli in good thynges: for vertue of it selfe, maketh a man to habound in all thynges that bee good, perfete, & prayse worthy: yea, it onely prouoketh God the fountaine of all goodnes, too loue and fauour man.

SP. I almost consent with you.

HED. But now marke howe far they bee from all pleasure, whiche seeme openly emongist all men too folowe nothyng, but the inordinate delectation in in thynges carnall. First their mynde is vile, and corrupted with the sauour and taste of noughtie desires, in so muche y^t if any pleasaunt thing chaunce them, forthwith it waxeth bitter, and is nought set by, in like maner as where y^e welle hed is corrupted and stynketh, there y^e water must nedes be vnsauery. Agein ther is no honest pleasure, but that whiche wee receaue with a sobre and a quiet mynde. For wee see, nothyng reioyseth the angry man more, thê too bee reuenged on his offenders, but that pleasure is turned into pain after his rage bee past, and anger subdued.

Spu. I say not the contrary.

He. Finally, suche leude pleasures bee taken of fallible thinges, therefore it foloweth that they be but delusiõs and shadowes. What woulde you say furthermore, if you saw a mã so deceaued with sorcerie & also other detestable witchecraftes, eat, drynke, leap, laugh, yea, and clappe handes for ioye, when ther wer no such thyng there in very dede, as he beleueth he seeth.

Spu. I wolde say he were both mad and miserable.

Hedo. I my self haue been often in place, where the lyke thyng hath been doone. There was a priest whiche knewe perfectly by longe experience and practise, the arte to make thynges seme that they were not, otherwise called, deceptio visus.

Sp. He did not lerne that arte of the holy scripture?

Hedo. Yea, rather of most popeholy charmes and witchecraftes: that is too saye, of thinges, cursed, dampnable, and wourthy too bee abhorred. Certayne ladies & gentlewomen of the courte, spake vnto hym oftentimes: saiyng, they woulde coomⁿ one day too his house and see what good chere he kept: reprouyng, greatly vile and homly fare, and moderate expenses in all thynges. He graunted they shulde bee welcome, and very instauntly desired them. And they came fastyng because they would haue better appetites. Whã they wer set to dyner (as it was thought) ther wãted noo kynde of delitious meat: they filled thê selues haboûdantly: after y^e feast was doone, they gaue moost hearty thanckes, for their galaunte cheare, and departed, euery one of them vnto their owne lodgynges: but anone their stomackes beganne too waxe an hungred, they maruayled what this shuld meane, so soone to be an hungred and a thirste, after so sumptuous a feast: at the last the matter was openly knowen and laught at.

Spu. Not without a cause, it had been muche better for thê too haue satisfied their stomackes at their owne chãbers with a messe of potage, thê too be fed so delitiousli with vain illusiõs.

H. And as I thîk y^e cõmune sort of men ar muche more too bee laught at, whiche in steede of Godlye thynges, chose vaine and transitory shadowes, and reioyce excedyngly in suche folishe phansies that turne not afterwarde in too a laughter, but into euerlasting lamentation and sorow.

Spudeus The more nerelier I note your saiynges, the better I like thê.

Hedo. Go too, let vs graunt for a tyme these thynges too bee called pleasaunt, that in very dede ar not. Would yow saye that meeth were swete: whiche had more Aloes myngled with it, then honye?

Spud. I woulde not so say and if there were but the third part of an ounce of Aloes mixt with it.

Hedo. Or els, would you wishe to bee scabbed because you haue some pleasure too scratch?

Spud. Noo, if I wer in my right mynd.

HED. Then weigh with your self how great peyne is intermyngled wyth these false and wrongly named pleasures, y^t vnshamefast loue filthie desire, much eatyng and drinking bring vs vnto: I doo omitte now that, which is principall grudge of cõscience, enemitie betwixt God and mã, and expectation of euerlastyng punishêment. What kynd of pleasure, I pray you is ther in these thinges, that dooeth not bryng with it a greate heape of outeward euilles?

SPV. What bee thei?

HEDO. We ought to let passe and forbeare in this place auarice, ambition, wrath, pryde enuy, whiche of their selues bee heuy and sorowful euylles and let vs conferre and compare all those thynges together, y^t haue the name of some chief and special pleasure: wher as the agew the hedache, the swelling of the belly, dulnes of witte, infamy, hurt of memory, vomyting, decaye of stomacke, tremblyng of the body succede of ouer muche drynking: thynke you, that the Epicure would haue estemed any suche lyke pleasure as thys, cõuenient and wourthy desire?

SPV. He woulde saye it wer vtterly too bee refused.

HEDONi. Wheras young men also with hauntynge of whores (as it is dayly seene) catche the newe leprosie, nowe otherwyse named Jobs agew, and some cal it the scabbes of Naples, throughe which desease they feele often y^e most extreme and cruell paines of deathe euen in this lyfe, and cary about a bodye resemblyng very much some dead coarse or carryn, do you thynke that thei apply them selues vnto godlye pleasure.

SPVD. Noo, for after thei haue been often familiar with their prety ones, then they must goo streighte too the barbours, that chaunceth continuallye vnto all whoremongers.

HED. Now fayne that ther wer a lyke measure of pain and plesure, would ye then require too haue the toothache so longe as the pleasure of quaffing & whordome endured?

SPV. Verely I had rather wãt them booth, for ther is no commoditie nor vantage to bye pleasure with payn but only to chaûg one thing for another, but the best choise is nowe not too affectionate anye such leudnes, for MAR. Tullius calleth that an inward greife & sorow.

He. But now y^e prouocation & entisemêt of vnleful plesure, besides that it is much lesse then the pain which it bringeth with it, it is also a thing of a very short time: but if the leprosye bee ones caught, it tourmêteth mê al their life daies very pitifully & oftentimes cõstraineth them to wyshe for death before thei cã dye.

SP. Such disciples as those then, the Epicure would not knowe.

HED. For the most part pouertie, a very miserable and painfull burden, foloweth lechery, of immoderate lust cõmeth the palsie, tremblyng of y^e senewes, bleardnes of eyes, and blyndnes, the leprosie and not these only, is it not a pper pece of worke (I pray you) to chaûg this short pleasure neyther honest nor yet godly, for so manye euylles far more greuouse and of muche longer continuance.

SP. Although there shoulde no pain com of it, I esteme hym to bee a very fond occupier, which would chaûge precious stones for glasse.

HE. You meane that would lose the godly pleasures of the mynde, for the coloured pleasures of y^e body.

SP. That is my meanyng.

HE. But nowe let vs come to a more perfecter supputation, neither the agewe nor yet pouerty foloweth alwaies carnal pleasure, nor the new leprosy or els the palsy wait not on at al times the great & excessiue vse of lecherye, but grudge of cõsiêce euermore is a folower & sure companiõ of al vnleaful pleasure, then the which as it is plainly agreed betwixt vs, nothyng is more miserable.

SPV. Yea, rather it grudgeth their cõscience sometyme before hande, & in the self pleasure it pricketh their mynde, yet ther bee some y^t you woulde say, want this motion and feelyng.

HE. Thei bee nowe therfore in worse estate & cõditiõ. Who would not rather feele payne, then too haue hys body lacke any perfecte sence, truly from some ether intemperatnes of euel desires, euen like as it were a certayne kynde of drunkenes, or els wont and cõmune haunt of vice which ar so hardened in them, y^t they take a way y^e felyng & cõsideration of euyl in their youth, so that whã agee commeth vpõ them beside other infinitie hurtes and perturbations agaynst whose commyng thei should haue layd vp the deedes of their former lyfe, as a special iuwel and treasure: then thei stande greatly in fear of death, a thyng emongist all other most ineuitable, & that no man canne shonne: yea, and the more they haue heretofore been dysmayed and lacked their sences, the greater now is their vnquietnes and grudge of conscience, then truely the mynde is sodenly awaked whether it wol or noo, and verely wher as olde agee is alwayes sad and heuy of it selfe for as muche as it is in subiection and bondage vnto many incommodities of nature, but then it is farre more wretchede and also fylthye, if the mynde vnquiet with it selfe shal trouble it also: feastes, ryotous banketyng, syngyng, and daunsynge, with manye suche other wanton toyes & pastimes which he was communely yeouê vnto & thought very plesaût when he was young, bee nowe paynfull vnto hym beyng olde and crooked, ne agee hath nothyng too comforte and fortifi it selfe withall, but onely too remembre that it hath passed ouer the course of yeares in vertue and godly liuyng and conceaue a special trust too obtaine herafter a better kynde of life. These be the two staues wherevpon age is stayed, & if in their steed you wyll lay on hym these two burdens: that is, memorie how synfully he hath ledde his life, and desperation of the felicitie that is too coome, I praye you what liuyng thyng can bee feyned too suffre sorer punishement and greater miserie?

spu. Verely I can see nothyng although some man woulde saye an olde horse.

hedo. Then to cõclude it is too late to waxe wise And that saiyng appereth now too bee very true. Carefull mornynges doo oftentymes folowe mery euentides, and all vayne and outragious mirth euer turneth into sorowfull sighes: yea, & they shulde haue considered both that there is noo pleasure aboue y^e ioyfulnes of the heart, and that chearefull mynde maketh agee too florishe, an heauy spirit consumeth the boones, & also that all the dayes of the poore are euell: that is, sorowfull and wretched. And agayne a quiet mynde is lyke a contynuall feaste.